Fatherland II & Joint CW Tech-Tre

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Fatherland II & Joint CW Tech-Tre

This form is intended to be a platform for the developers of Fatherland II, a modification for Hearts of Iron 3, and those who are interested in contributing with ideas.


+4
Simples...
Karelian
Rawrawrbangbang
Black Guardian
8 posters

    Economy & internal policy Events

    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:23 pm

    Though I don´t know how far Zerli and his economy mod has advanced by now, I will start with a set of dynamic events sonner or later, based on his system proposed in the paradox forum. If everything fails and he does not finish his project, we will have to build our own system based on his ideas.

    The principle behind this event, decision & law-set will be the idea, that almost every politic decision or occasion is linked to economic background or aims at an economic interest of a certain group. For now, I will start with domestic policy-making, later on advancing into a new dimension and taking this concept (at least in part) into foreign policy as well.

    My abstracted plans include the integration of events for economic cycles (growth, boom, recession/depression) and their political effects (e.g. mass unemployment in case of a great depression). Reactions in these fields can be made either through event-choices, decisions or laws (setting up economic stimulus packages, minimum wages, taxes, tariffs... whatever comes into mind - it will remain abstracted though!).
    All these can or will have certain effects on the economy and on the political reality in your country - the higher the unemployment rate, the bigger the dissent and tendency towards totalitarian parties, for example.
    Of course, you could also react towards the first riots in your country by force or implementation of national emergency status... but who knows which effects this will have?

    You see, possibilities are endless and I hope I am able keep the necessary abstraction without making it too easy to see through the mechanism and abuse it. Though I will probably create a kind of structure chart to have a plan for this...

    Comments, Ideas, Suggestions?
    Rawrawrbangbang
    Rawrawrbangbang


    Posts : 14
    Join date : 2009-10-13
    Location : Washington State, US

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Rawrawrbangbang Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:17 pm

    Like you said, as long as it stays abstract, it would be great. Are you planning nation specific events, or just one global system implemented for every country? Is it going to vary based on ideology? A communist state would obviously have a very different economy than a democratic or fascist nation.
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:30 pm

    A good economic system would definitively give the mod the correct Cold War era-feeling as we earlier discussed. It sounds like it will be hell of a difficult project to implement properly, though. Hopefully Zerli is still working on his project, it has been tad silent in that thread since his announcement - but then again many good mods have been published out of the blue so there is still hope.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:35 am

    Rawrawrbangbang wrote:Like you said, as long as it stays abstract, it would be great. Are you planning nation specific events, or just one global system implemented for every country? Is it going to vary based on ideology? A communist state would obviously have a very different economy than a democratic or fascist nation.


    My plans include a global system that flexibly applies according to the conditions that are existant. Of course, for market-economy-related events, there should be trigger-condition based on the economic system (probably a law).

    ( Considering that I could not find a trigger that checks for a law, I will have to do it differently. I already have an alternative plan. )

    The system will then work with a set of country-flags / modifiers giving certain effects and triggering other events in combination with different preconditions. All in all it should be possible to put in a good and dynamic system without coding events for every country. If necessary, restrict me from going too deeply into detail.
    Rawrawrbangbang
    Rawrawrbangbang


    Posts : 14
    Join date : 2009-10-13
    Location : Washington State, US

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Rawrawrbangbang Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:51 am

    That sounds good. Can you trigger events or decisions based on ideology? It seems like you should be able to, since I know that it is defined separately from government in saves. Then, you could have two versions, one for capitalism and one for communism.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:08 am

    It is possible to trigger events according to government type (Democracy, absolute Monarcy, etc.) as well as ideology of the ruling party. I would rather prefer it to be linked to law (economic system-law, will be added by me), as for example China today uses a market-based system while still being communist in party/government ideology.

    I will start with market-related events though, as they are more complex and do apply to more countries and not only the rare cases of China, Soviet Union & their puppets.


    Edit: To be correct, with Germany (and probably its allies as well) as centrally planned economy at scenario-start, the number of cp-economies is greater. However, there should be a special event-chain for Germany anyway apart from the general events, as Germany had a legacy from its pre-war-economic development that could lead to severe problems (depending on the future development, the spoils from military campaigns and different other factors)
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:22 pm

    If you need any help for looking up statistics or for other background research, I'll see what I can do.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty The Basics

    Post  Black Guardian Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:33 pm

    I have set up a number of basics upon which the system will rely and I want to share it with you to get a short feedback what you like, dislike and what has to be changed.

    Economic System Law
    -Free Market / Laissez Faire
    -Limited State interference
    -Capitalist War economy
    -Central Planning with private capital-owners ("Kommandowirtschaft" / 3rd Reich pre-war-economy ) ??
    -Central Planning (state owned capital)

    Trade Restrictions / Tarrifs Law
    -Free Trade
    -Limited Restrictions
    -Substential Restrictions
    -Heavy Restrictions
    -Closed Market

    Central Bank Interest Rates
    -Very Low (0-2%)
    -Low (2-3%)
    -Medium (3-5%)
    -High (5+%)

    Taxes
    -Very Low
    -Low
    -Medium
    -High
    -Very high

    Social Spending & Welfare
    -Very Low
    -Low
    -Acceptable
    -Good
    -High

    Military Spending
    -Low (0-5% of GDP)
    -Average (5-10% of GDP)
    -Medium (10-20% of GDP)
    -High (20-30% of GDP)
    -Very High (30-40% of GDP)
    -Maximum (40-60% of GDP)

    Country Modifiers
    -Recession (0-3 years, may become Depression or stagnation)
    -Depression (2-5 years, may only result in growth or stagnation)
    -Growth (3-5 years, may become boom, stagnation or sudden recession through endogenous factors (Oil-crisis..))
    -Boom (0-2 years, may only result in recession)
    -Stagnation (unlimited, may only result in growth)

    -full employment (0-3% unemployment rate)
    -low unemployment (3-5% unemployment rate)
    -medium unemployment (5-7% )
    -high unemployment (7-15%)
    -very high unemployment (15-25%)
    -horrendous unemployment (25-50%)


    There will be several country-decisions as well, which I not yet worked out.
    Comments? Do you think its too complex or is it okay?
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:43 pm

    Black Guardian wrote:I have set up a number of basics upon which the system will rely and I want to share it with you to get a short feedback what you like, dislike and what has to be changed...Comments? Do you think its too complex or is it okay?


    It's logical, simple enough to understand with basic understanding of economics.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:47 pm

    I started working a little bit, created a table yesterday that displays the growth for several IC-levels according to percentage-rates.

    Furthermore I implemented the laws into the game-code to create something that can be shown:

    Economy & internal policy Events Screenshotlaws

    Unfortunately, as you can see, something is not working properly, as Economic System-laws and Military Spending laws are not displayed. I cannot find a good reason, however, as I coded them in exactly the same way as the other laws. confused

    If anybody has a solution for my little problem, please tell me. I can also supply you with the codes, it´s only 2 files.

    Please notice that the laws do only have a placeholder-effect right now. Furthermore, the laws for France are chosen arbitrarily.
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:56 pm

    Black Guardian wrote:If anybody has a solution for my little problem, please tell me. I can also supply you with the codes, it´s only 2 files.

    Hmm, have you checked how PoliticalMod was coded?
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418678
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:30 pm

    Karelian wrote:
    Black Guardian wrote:If anybody has a solution for my little problem, please tell me. I can also supply you with the codes, it´s only 2 files.

    Hmm, have you checked how PoliticalMod was coded?
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418678

    Found the reason in one of the posts on the first page. There were 2 errors in my country.txt file for my testing-country France. Now it should work, I´ll test it.

    Economy & internal policy Events Screen10
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:09 pm

    Seeing planned stuff in-game (even as mere placeholders for now) is always a good thing. Keep up the good work!
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:58 pm

    I am currently making up my mind about the different economic system-laws, their prerequisites, effects and what happens if you change them.

    The following proposals:

    Free market:

    • Reduces the amount of leadership by a good deal (represents the need of skilled people on the labour-market)
    • greatly decreases practical & theoretical decay (represents the constant innovation in a free market)
    • disables anything above "low taxes"
    • disables anything above "low Social Spending & Welfare"
    • disables any choice of a economic stimulus-package. "Market regulates itself"-doctrine
    • increases the strength of economic cycles -> higher growth, but sharper recessions
    • costs much less money than any other government form

    • can only be enacted by market-liberal government


    Limited State Interference
    • Reduces the amount of leadership somewhat (less than free market, state can now employ his own projects much easier)
    • decreases practical & theoretical decay somewhat (less than fee market, for balancing reasons)
    • can use economic stimulus packages
    • costs more money than free market (state owned sectors...)

    • can be enacted by all party-ideologies (?) (Note: some government types may have special requirements, such as communist countries who need to be tolerant towards their reformers, like China in the 1980s)


    Capitalist War economy
    • increases amount of leadership by a good deal (more ressources for war-related projects)
    • slightly reduced practical & theoretical decay, now more focused on military categories than industrial values
    • does not suffer from normal economic cycles
    • can implement "high" "very high" or "maximum" military spending

    • may only be implemented in wartime if the current law is Free market or limited state interference
    • Problems may occur if these laws are kept implemented for a decent time after peace-deal was signed


    The central-planning branch will be added soon
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:15 am

    Black Guardian wrote:I am currently making up my mind about the different economic system-laws, their prerequisites, effects and what happens if you change them...

    Looks good so far, the "Cold War-feeling" and true differences between different political systems are beginning to show just like we planned.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:36 pm

    Black Guardian wrote:

    The central-planning branch will be added soon

    I changed my personal plan-of-action regarding this. I don´t want to think about central-planning-branch yet but will rather start the theoretical event-structure for the free-market-branch as this is most important in my opinion, as utilized by most countries.
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:31 pm

    Getting the economic cycle modded to the game in a proper manner is surely a demanding task, but once it´s done we really have something other mods have so far far ignored, AFAIK.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:01 am

    The following outlines are now created conceptually:

    Event-Layer 1


    Transition from Recession / Depression to Growth
    influenced positively by:
    -low interest
    -econ. stimulus packages
    -state interference + high social spendings (acts as stabilizing factor) and high military spending
    -low(ered) taxes

    changes country-modifier from Recession/Depression to Growth

    Transition from Growth to Boom

    Will not be modelled by a country-modifier but by certain flavor-events that start to kick in.
    -Overconfidence, belief in the super-cycle of steady growth, scepticism about the growth-face, crash-gurus ...

    Transition from Growth/Boom to Recession
    Will kick in by certain shock-events that might occur (and may even be foreseeable some time before they actually happen):
    -"Stock market crash" / "A black day"
    -"Bank sector crash"
    -"A bubble bursts..."
    -"Oil price shock"
    -"Political crisis" / "Loss of confidence" / "Political Instability"
    -"Massive price-deteroriation"
    -"Strong inflationary tendencies"

    [As basics - whoever has good ideas, tell me. Later on, I might add foreign trade dependence, but in the first steps of development, I totally ignored foreign trade & foreign trade restrictions to keep it simple!]

    Transition from Recession to Depression

    -Country is in recession and the inverted factors for growth-inducing conditions apply:
    -> high interest, no econ. stimulus, low/no social & military spending, high taxes


    That basically closes the cycle on a very basic level. The growth itself will be adapted on layer 2.


    Event-Layer 2


    Production increases
    -Adds a new factory to a random province in your country
    -decreases a variable named "unemployment" Wink

    Production declines
    -Removes a factory from a random province in your country
    -increases a variable named "unemployment"

    Company invests in our country
    -Adds a total of 5 factory to a random province in your country

    Company goes bankrupt
    -removes a total of 5 factory from a random province in your country

    The 2 events that add 5 factories are basically a theoretical idea to spare the player of an industrial country getting a new "production increases"-popup every 10 days or so.

    The idea is, that production increases and declines in times of growth as well as in times of recession. It is only the saldo that is either positive or negative.
    Maybe I will also add several of those events with different names for flavor-purposes, as "production increases/decreases" is rather dull and does not add much of a feeling to a living world, which I would really prefer.


    Event-Layer 3


    Unemployment:
    I do not know, wether my plans regarding this will work as they are supposed to. I plan to implement a variable, hoping that variables are country-specific and not global. This has to be tested! If it doesn´t work, I have to find other creative solutions...

    Unemployment-variable is increased when factories close down and decreased when new facilities are opened. Furthermore, state intervention can decrease this if the political conditions allow this. However, unemployment-variables will be ever-growing due to technological improvements that introduce more efficient ways of production. As machines replace workers because they are more efficient, unemployment does rise ("rationalization") and to keep all people employed either the working people work less and take more time for their leisure, or there will be some people not needed anymore -> unemployment.

    As the unemployment-variable reaches a certain amount, an event will trigger and give you a nasty modifier for your country, giving you some political penalties (unemployed can be really dissatisfied and radical in political terms, you know) as well as a dissent-modifier, depending on your social spending-level.
    Thus, societies with good social systems will be politically more durable than those with completely free and unregulated markets.

    Events & modifiers on the political scale are another topic that are influenced by economic decisions but do not count into this model itself. It is another plan deep in my head that might be revealed later on.


    Any suggestions, criticism, ideas? Come on, at least praise me for getting my ass moved a bit Laughing
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:26 pm

    Praise! cheers

    And some feedback and ideas.
    First of all I go a little off topic and say that I really like the link between economics and politics. Well, more of that once you tell what you´ve planned on the politics part.

    As for the economy itself, the first thing that sprang to mind was the political effect of foreign investments.
    Since we are talking about the Cold War era and world going through decolonization I think that once we get to foreign trade and trade restrictions, I´ll have new ideas to contribute. But more of that later as well.

    On a national level the proposed system seems solid, especially once you cover the import and export part of economy as well. Once you get to that phase we should really think whether it is possible to simulate global economics as well, so that once recession hits one of the major economies of the rivalling ideological camps, the rest of the members of this market area suffer as well as similar negative effects kick in?
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:34 am

    Karelian wrote:On a national level the proposed system seems solid, especially once you cover the import and export part of economy as well. Once you get to that phase we should really think whether it is possible to simulate global economics as well, so that once recession hits one of the major economies of the rivalling ideological camps, the rest of the members of this market area suffer as well as similar negative effects kick in?

    Assuming that the domestic model works as proposed above, I have gathered some further ideas on the international spread of a crisis or boom for those countries participating in an open market environment. Maybe capital-market-regulation laws will also be needed, but right they are kept away from the thinking.

    I thought how to keep it easy, while gaining the effect that
    a) a country participates on global business-cycles according to its foreign dependence
    b) the global business-cycle is determined by all its actors according to their own foreign dependence (logical, a country who does not heavily participate in global trade, say, enclosed China in the 1950s, will not make the global trade crumble)

    So, basically, I came up with a system based on 2 layers again, not very surprising Wink

    Participant 1 in the system is the economic activity in the free market countries, using the domestic system.
    Participant 2 is a new variable, determining the "global trade/business activity" - or better, the economic cycles of the entire free-market-world.
    Participant 3 is another domestic value (don´t know wether variable or modifer is sufficient) named "foreign dependence" or the activity of trade with other countries.

    Economic activity in a country will influence this global variable according to the foreign dependence and IC (or GDP) it has. A huge economy with huge foreign dependence will have huge impact on the global economy (see, USA and financial crisis 2008/9) while minor economies may have minor effects.

    In good times, the global variable will be increased, simulating boom-conditions all over the world, positive effects for open or opening countries might endure.

    If a crisis hits a major country though... you know the rest.
    Global variable is likely to be significantly lowered, which increases the chance for another domestic crisis-event to trigger (foreign market shocks or something) and the situation will have the potential to deteroriate further, if not quickly stabilized.
    Downwards-spiral is possible, but I will try to keep it somewhat random and dependend on the size of the economy anyway. A financial crisis in Taiwan should not nessecarily draw the US down as well, though it MIGHT.

    And don´t think that shutting your markets on the outbreak of a global crisis will prevent anything - in fact, the more dependend you are, the more it will hurt you...


    And how do you want to make it work with a global variable when there is no such thing as a global variable?
    Good question. It will simply be a value that will only apply to a player-country. (By the way, this might destroy the multiplayer-playability, but this is secondary for me) This has the nice side-effect that I can put the variable-changing into a framework of "news of the world" or something alike, so player is immediately informed when something happens, he is informed about the trends, global developments, etc .

    The entire system is still a construct of thought and thus very fragile, somethings may not work as planned and need tweaking in their realization. But that´s my basic plan on this one. Proposals allowed.

    About foreign investment, I will think later on - I have something in mind regarding "ressource richness", regarding the expansion of ressource-extraction to feed the economic system with energy & co ... but this is still very abstract.

    What do you think so far?
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 pm

    Clever potential workaround for the lack of a global variable there. And yep, multiplayers, especially for modded game, are a really tiny minority. I like the idea of having financial news-events, if we can pull this through it will really breath life to the world.

    And if it doesn´t work in reality...well, some early testing will make us both wiser in this regard.
    The political effects of resource-extraction and foreign investments are something I would like to take a further look into as well, but first we have to get the country-specific economic system sorted out.

    So far it seems that you have a clear vision and a realistic plan to turn it to reality, so keep it up and test the programming-part when possible so that we can plan further once it´s confirmed that this proposed system will indeed work in-game.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Problem

    Post  Black Guardian Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:38 pm

    So, after playing around a bit to try the lawgroup = law trigger (which works fine, by the way) I face the next problem that was already solved once...
    I´ll focus the code on only one (the most important for now) part to cut it a bit shorter than with the full code:

    Laws.txt:
    Code:

    economic_system_law = {

       free_market = {
             allow = { }
                   global_money = 0.01  #placeholder

                }

       limited_state_interference = {
             allow = { }
                global_money = 0.01 #placeholder
                }

       capitalistic_war_economy = {
             allow = { war = yes
                  #free market law
                }
                global_money = 0.01 #placeholder
                }

       Kommandowirtschaft = {
             allow = { }
                global_money = 0.01 #placeholder
                }

       central_planning = {
             allow = { }
                global_money = 0.01 #placeholder

                }
     }


    history/country/fra.txt

    Code:


    military_spending_law = low_military_spending
    welfare_law = acceptable_social_spending
    taxation_law = medium_taxes
    interest_rate_law = low_interest
    trade_restriction_law = limited_trade_restrictions
    economic_system_law = limited_state_interference
    training_laws = advanced_training
    press_laws = free_press
    industrial_policy_laws = mixed_industry
    education_investment_law = medium_large_education_investment
    economic_law = full_civilian_economy
    conscription_law = two_year_draft
    civil_law = open_society

    But ingame:

    Economy & internal policy Events Laws11

    This is especially strange, as it had worked already before (see screenshot above) before I changed something somewhere else (event-file to test the trigger & event-modifiers to add a country-modifier for growth applied by the event I crafted) - now it does not work anymore, I tried changing things here and there, switched things around - nothing helped.
    I even used the JSGME-Mod Switcher to make sure it replaces the vanilla-files for sure and does not simply continue using them instead of my modded ones. Didn´t help either.
    Now I don´t have any idea how to fix this, instead of the long-worn-out attempt to remove all files from the mod-folder and placing them in bit for bit to check where the problem lies... but this is tedious work, so I wanted to ask you wether you see the problem more easily than me?
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:13 pm

    Hmm, at the moment I can´t really see what could cause that. I suppose you have tried Validator already?
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:03 pm

    Karelian wrote:Hmm, at the moment I can´t really see what could cause that. I suppose you have tried Validator already?

    No, good hint, I didn´t remember that such a thing existed. Unfortunately I cannot download it at the moment, whenever I click "click here to start download" nothing happens and it switches back to "processing download request". Maybe later? Sad
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:31 pm

    Check your e-mail, I happed to have the install file of 0.6.3b-version at hand.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:52 pm

    Found an interesting thing that might have been an explanation for the errors, but wasn´t - it still doesn´t work. Though Vanilla seems to be delivered with quite some errors...
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:14 pm

    According to the Validator thread the errors in vanilla code are real Rolling Eyes
    Too bad that didin´t do the trick though, checking it out the hard way is really annoying.
    Simples...
    Simples...


    Posts : 7
    Join date : 2010-02-01

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Simples... Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:59 am

    Hello!

    New here.

    Did you think of setting new variables to simulate economy. And to classificate the countries by their level of developlment in order to set different chains of events?
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:22 am

    Greetings. And to answer your question: yes. See posts 8, 14, and 18 for detailed description of the plans regarding economic system.
    Simples...
    Simples...


    Posts : 7
    Join date : 2010-02-01

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Simples... Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:37 pm

    In a Mod that i'm developing, i have ,in Laws, created 6stages

    -Primary Sector (agriculture)
    -Primary Sector in road to Industrialization 1-2
    -Secondary Sector Industrialization 2
    -Secondary Sector in road to Services 2-3
    -Third Sector Services 3
    -Fourth Sector "is to simulate Only High-Technological sector" «4»

    1. This are abstractive, since with this i want only to represent the percentage of GDP that is produced by what sector.
    2. This was intend to a mod that i'm developing, to go until 2020, because of that you see this "Fourth Sector!"
    3. I don't know if you know, but you don't have to put in countries file the laws you want. The game by itself puts the countries to the most above position, f.e., if you didn't put some restrictions in laws taking this ahead example all countries put the law in Fourth Sector by default. So i have manage to insert a system where Ai have to search is own industrialization and development path. Also putting the level of economy in law, i can give some effects like for example Giving a bonus to Primary Sector countries of resource extraction, and giving a penalty to IC efficiency and production.


    Another thing for example, Portugal during dictactorship have a high restriction market, so because of that Portugal industry sell her products to Colonies and home market, so portugal industry have a bad production rate, because they didn't have competition (concurrence) and we know if we are in a open market, with competition industry tends to be much better efficiency and produce more with more quality:) for simulate that i have put some bonus on IC and efficiency on open market(for this i only have made 3stages, but i like your 4stages).

    Other thing that i have made, was that if you place low taxes to industry and have skilled labor, Capitalists or Investors will invest in your country so making more IC, to simulate that i have made a Chain of events who gives some Random Province_IC, because your country is attractive to investment.
    I also have made a system to evaluate educational level of people in the state.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:03 pm

    Well, though your mod has not much to do with my approaches, you finally gave me an idea for a possible workaround. This is only a temporary solution, but as long as I cannot explain myself why player-controlled countries will not use the pre-set laws, I will simply rearrange the laws in a way that free-market is automatically chosen by everyone (which works fine in my first test)

    Bughunting for now seems workless, it is really a lack of the determinist ability in the history-file. Maybe I do indeed need restrictions or the machine will pre-set the most "efficient" (central planning *cough*) law possible (efficient means the furthest down on the list) before handing control over to me.

    If I rearrange the laws so that countries automatically choose free market (for now, as long as no restrictions are in) I am free to continue on the more interesting parts of the mod.

    Thanks for this insight Smile


    Edit & Up: After adding several restrictions (for now, ideology) and rearranging the economic-system-law I have achieved the desired effect. Right now, I don´t have to set anything into history-files at all, as the test-event seems to trigger for all market-countries anyway. Very nice Smile
    Simples...
    Simples...


    Posts : 7
    Join date : 2010-02-01

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Simples... Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:14 am

    yes they are different approaches but i think they could be merged. My submod is not a economical mod, have some economics, but is not by nature economic. But i think we could improve these mods:)

    I use for restrictions, ideas, country_modifiers, flags, and new variables.
    I have insert a educational_level, and a "hapiness_level" for the people, and then a classification by country

    I think that in HOi3 economy is you player who have to build IC, but as you understand better economics than me, is the investors who make the IC expand, by building factories, founding enterprises, etc... And for that, or for some kind of enterprises, for countries expand their IC they have to had the necessary conditions and be attractive to be able to "capitalists" invest and increase the industrial level of a country.
    Don't you agree with these for countries with non-state control, or parcial state control?

    But i like very much your economical aproach to the game:) will be a great improvement to the game.
    Count on me, for help you:)

    After i have more time i will try to solve some bugs on your code:)

    Other thing i thought to add, but i cannot because of game and my pc performance was a Population simulator, but for that we had to edit every province.
    I have run two experiments, but i need some more, but with those experiments it is possible to add population numbers. And use them.
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:37 am

    Black Guardian wrote:
    Edit & Up: After adding several restrictions (for now, ideology) and rearranging the economic-system-law I have achieved the desired effect. Right now, I don´t have to set anything into history-files at all, as the test-event seems to trigger for all market-countries anyway. Very nice Smile

    Progress is always nice. What´s the overall status of the project right now, is the free market system in a state where it could be beta-tested?
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:56 am

    Karelian wrote:
    Black Guardian wrote:
    Edit & Up: After adding several restrictions (for now, ideology) and rearranging the economic-system-law I have achieved the desired effect. Right now, I don´t have to set anything into history-files at all, as the test-event seems to trigger for all market-countries anyway. Very nice Smile

    Progress is always nice. What´s the overall status of the project right now, is the free market system in a state where it could be beta-tested?

    Far away from that, I have just 1 event fully written and this is only to initialize stuff and to test the law-trigger (which works fine) - next steps will be a bit more sophisticated and a little bit more intensive coding, especially as I am not yet fond of the entire possibilities and restrictions of HoI3 event-structure, partly due to the lack of a -really- complete scripting-command list and what I can apply how. Looking into the Magna Mundi events shows me that I am still far from having understood the entire scale of Clausewitz-Engine eventscripts Very Happy
    Simples...
    Simples...


    Posts : 7
    Join date : 2010-02-01

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Simples... Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:05 am

    Black Guardian wrote:

    Far away from that, I have just 1 event fully written and this is only to initialize stuff and to test the law-trigger (which works fine) - next steps will be a bit more sophisticated and a little bit more intensive coding, especially as I am not yet fond of the entire possibilities and restrictions of HoI3 event-structure, partly due to the lack of a -really- complete scripting-command list and what I can apply how. Looking into the Magna Mundi events shows me that I am still far from having understood the entire scale of Clausewitz-Engine eventscripts Very Happy

    I can help you, looking for magnamundi will not help you, you are going to be more confuse lol, after you understand well hoi3 events, look first for HOI3 events and decisions they are better for you understand, then you be able to understand magna mundi mechanics.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:43 am

    Hey Folks,

    I just want to let you know that I am not dead yet. I had no time last week as I had a guest. The next weeks will not be better, as I have to prepare for examinations and have not come very far in this matter yet. So, this will consume time as well - don´t expect any serious update on the topic from me before the end of January. Maybe I will do something in between, but that won´t be much.

    Anyway, to cheer you up a little bit (at least those with a basic understanding of economics / economists):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcqUGKszi7s
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:04 pm

    Reminded me of the "Flight of the Conchords" in a good way.
    As for a status update from my part: I´m still waiting for the latest version of Magrathea and the modified graphics for the new tech tree layout. Once I get them and 1.4 comes out (hopefully fixing the mysterious issue with land dotctrines showing up and messing units stats without them being actually researched) I can start both testing the internal balance of the land dotctrines and first and foremost editing the province layout of the starting scenario.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:01 pm

    As I told you, I modded the law-requirements a little bit (at least for economic system law, to test things) and the results looked pretty good, as I rearranged the code and the countries try to choose the highest possible law whose requirements they fulfill.
    Now, a quick look into the result for Germany, as I just loaded up as it to test something else and thought I could give you a quick look:

    Economy & internal policy Events Gerlaw11

    Special attention to the economic system-law! Wink

    The rest needs proper adjustment later, but for now, the priorites are not with the economic system but with map, tech & units.
    Karelian
    Karelian


    Posts : 230
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Karelian Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:44 pm

    The more concrete modding results we have to show, the better. The economic system you are devising is still something I haven´t seen in other mods, and so far I´ve really liked what I´ve seen.
    As a sidenote: I´ve been skimming and scanning through latest historical research of the subject - not only for my personal interests but also for future events and storyline needs as well. Mazower´s "Hitler´s Empire - Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe" has been a real goldmine in this sense, but more of this later once I get my notes in order.
    Black Guardian
    Black Guardian
    Admin


    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2009-06-13
    Location : Saxony

    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Black Guardian Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:07 pm

    I am currently reading a very interesting article that analyses the difference in Chinese and Russian Transition process into market economies from an enlightening perspective. Might be interesting for the transition-modeling in the game as well...

    Pragmatism versus economics ideology: China versus Russia

    If you push too far too fast your greed will have fatal consequences? pirat

    Sponsored content


    Economy & internal policy Events Empty Re: Economy & internal policy Events

    Post  Sponsored content

      Similar topics

      -

      Current date/time is Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:12 pm